It's a Generational Thing - Indian Motorcycles

Few weeks ago, I wrote about one of my pet peeves and lightly touched on the subject of the various generations of Indian Motorcycles. This isn't meant to be  history lesson; I'm not qualified in that area, but do know a few that are. Still, the different generations of the bikes seems to be a mystery for many.  And for others, no respect for generations for bikes, outside the realm/generation, of the bike they currently ride/own.  But whether one owns an old school original, or one of the newest, they are all Indian Motorcycles.

First Generation

The year 1901.  Most are familiar with it.  The year Indian Motorcycle was brought to market. 

These are referred to as the "Springfields", simply because they were built in Springfield Massachusetts.  From 1901-1953 composes this generation.  An interesting lil' tid bit that a few don't know is that ... originally it was actually Hendee Manufacturing Company and not until the late '20s that the name flipped over to what we know it today. There were some beautiful bikes that came out of that era and some are still around today, ridden regularly by the hard core that keep 'em alive.  There are still a few companies out there that are focused on them as well, from coast to coast.  Hell, you can buy a reproduction from Kiwi Indian that most would never know the difference unless one looks closely for hints.  Various models came out during this

time frame.  The Scout, Chief and the "Four" .   There was the 841 military model introduced in  WWII that has an interesting history, and part of what began a domino effect , leading to the demise of Indian in '53. No matter how we got there, in '53 would be the last official model for Indian's Springfield Generation.

The Dark Years

 For the next 45 years or so, Indian's history would get muddied by

imports .. rebadging ...court rooms .. before another 'real' go was made of it.   I personally don't count this as a generation .. at least not officially.  Doesn't find it's way into my discussion.  To me, these were the dark ages.  After Indian closed it's doors, they started to show up again .. but ...as rebadged Royal Enfields. This went on for almost a decade with around nine or so different models imported and slightly customized. They were all 700 cc or less , and had a completely diff' look. Sometime around '62 this whole venture was tit's up and the next phase of the dark era' was upon us.  For the next 15 years or so, Floyd Clymer imports brought in anything from mini bikes to various modified bikes up to 750cc. 

On the latter end due to his death, we found ourselves with Taiwan imports with the Indian name stamped on them.  To further complicate things, was Clymer even the legal owner of the "name?"  By '77 ... it was all over.  Now, the really crazy times start. Companies going to court to take power of the 'name' .Crooks found their way into the mix.  Prototypes were built. Legit failed attempts. Lawyers and courts in the mix ...  but finally we find ourselves with the next generation.

Second Generation

This is the time frame I personally became intimately aware of Indian Motorcycles.  It's 1999 and

Indian Motorcycle of America was formed.  They were manufactured in Gilroy, California and we refer to them as "Gilroys" .  Their slang name is Garlics; Gilroy being the 'garlic capitol' .  I find two things interesting about these years.  The first of this is when folks referred to them as "HD Clones".   Why?  Because California Motorcycle Company ( CMC) was in the mix here and that's what they built , with S&S motors at the heart of them. To get the bikes out the door quickly the first Chiefs were supposedly the CMC bikes with the cool Indian fenders swapped onto them.  Then, add a lot of leather, different tanks ... and .. there you go.  Now in all fairness, it was more than that. Much more.  And if you look at a Scout, it has similarities to an HD Softail.  The new Chiefs stood out with the valanced fenders and  were Long and Low, I like to call 'em . And soon a Spirit model would show up , which in my mind is simply a Scout with more options putting it right between the Chief and Scout.  Still, these bikes were works of art, especially the Chiefs.  Though technically they have different suspensions than the big HDs, I think they competed directly with HD Roadkings.  Except, pretty much every model of Chief, made the HDs look ... well...  boring... old...  my opinion of course ( hey .. it's my blog!).  So no matter what folks say about the "HD Clone" angle, I personally don't care.  Stock HDs of that era, visually .. didn't stand up to the Indians.  Well, a few years later ( around '02 models) the Power Plus 100 motor was delivered.  It's nickname was "bottle cap' due to the visuals of the jugs on the motors.   These motors had potential; they'd lay the groundwork for the next generation.  But ...   with Indian having QA issues.. and .. they had a design issue with these motors  that resulted in massive recalls....   the company was soon in a quandary.  There were funding and investor issues, etc... but in my opinion..... overall QA issues and .. the PP100 motor's design flaw....   led to bankruptcy and it's closing of it's doors in Sep of '03.   Thousands of modern Indians were roaming the roads of America during this time.  The Gilroy era had setup the modern era of Indian bikes we have today.   Folks joined together in riding groups and virtually

PP100

via forums, to keep them on the road.  Friendships were formed.  A movement was underway.   This generation was the one that no matter how you spin it,  was a solid stepping stone for the future.  Many of these bikes are around today.  They are still being sold around the world (pre-owned, of course), being ridden and parts are available via certain sources.  In fact a few companies are still around that will rebuild the PP100 motors that had problems ( not all did ) and make them 'bullet proof' .   Many of these bikes are still here today, works of art.  Beauties,  in stock form.

Third Generation

Soon after the closing of doors and the selling off of assets and the

2009 Chief Vintage

Intellectual Property .. the name .. .was purchased by Stellican Limited and the race was on for the next model release.  It would be a few years later, with production based out of Kings Mountain, NC.  Their nick name?  You guessed it .. "Kings Mountains".   Contrary to popular belief, the PP100 was a good motor.  Or, let me put it a diff' way.  it had ...  'good bones'.  It was the basis for the new motor, the PP105 which corrected the design flaws of the PP100 and was upgraded to fuel injection.  The bikes look somewhat similar to the '02 and '03 Gilroys, with subtle changes on the tanks, exhaust,  and .. one can quickly tell them apart from a distance by certain parts of the motor ( cam cover, etc).  Overall, the bikes handle great, lots of torque, and the motors have proven to be solid.  The bikes overall have proven to be solid.  However, due to the economy at the time ( 2008 was a financial nightmare for the US economy ) , and the higher costs of the bikes ( 25-36k depending on the model),  they didn't manufacture and sell the quantities they'd hoped for.  In fact, by '11 with only three years of producing bikes, theysold it off and two more years of low quantities were produced by the new 'owner'.  After a five year model run, there were 1100 or less bikes produced.  One could argue, and I do, that these are some of the rarest bikes out there.  One day, I believe their values with catapult up

PP105

there. Sadly, I doubt it'll be in my lifetime.  One lil' twist in this generation is, the bike's manufacturing facility was moved to a different state.  Some of the hardcore refuse to recognize the '12 and '13 models as Kings Mountain Indians.  Me personally, I believe.. and refer to .. ALL five years as KM bikes.  They are basically identical except for the way the marked/stamped the head area of the frame.   Park an '09 and '13 next to each other and there no other differences.  So, for all intensive purposes, the KM Generations were the '09 - '13 Chiefs.  For those that own them, they are a dream to ride.  Sort of a throwback to old school days, with their hard mounted single cam, V Twin motors.

As I mentioned, Indian was acquired in '11 by Polaris Industries.  Now the kicker is, and for whatever reason something that bugs the hell out of me, many folks to include some whose job it is to write about it .. .say that Indian was bought out of bankruptcy .. or had closed shop .. was out of business ... when PI purchased them. Not true.  Hell, I was at my dealer picking up my bike after getting it serviced, the day it was announced.   Now, they weren't selling many because of their high costs and an economy that forced many others to close their doors... but...   they were alive.   And had they not sold to PI .....  we might have seen a Scout get introduced earlier than '15 and .. if they would have survived or not . ... we'll never know. But the point is.. they were alive and kicking; okay .. barely kicking.   The second thing is, PI immediately halted production and moved that piece to Spirit Lake, Iowa where the '12 and '13s would be assembled.  I've heard they built 'x' amount of bikes based on the inventory they acquired. Alternately, I've also heard those bikes were built from all new parts.   I guess we'll never know the real answer.  PI treats the the 2nd and 3rd generations as step children.  It doesn't appear to further their agenda.  They'd rather focus on the first generation since that gives it a more retro feel, and legitimizes the '1901' aspect we've all grown to see .. stamped on .. just about everything.    Back to the move, the '12 and '13s were built in Spirit Lake, the same location as the next generation to follow.   And that, throws more than a few a curve ball.  Why?  Because some out there refer to these two years as Polaris Indians.  They also refer to the next generation as that... see the confusion?   Me personally, no once can convince me to refer to them as that ...

PI is now up and running full tilt.  They've introduced the motor at Daytona Bike week in '13.  They are scheduled to reveal them all at Sturgis in '13.  We're being teased of a new generation, to be manufactured in ... Spirit Lake.   They therefore will obviously be referred to as ___ _____ ...   ?    Well... not so fast.  That's what I refer to them as .  Many of the long time riders do.  But many newbies simply say "Polaris Indians'..   When I hear folks say this, I immediately, right or wrong,  tag them as uneducated on the brand's history.  For those that own more than one generation of bikes, that title doesn't fit.   Hell, some folks get butt hurt when riders of other brands refer to them as this. And many don't care and get a deer in the headlights look when you correct them or attempt to explain it to them. And, some .. and I guess that is what has prompted this blog post ...   believe that's what they should be called and sometimes, then begin to throw previous generations of Indians under the bus so to speak.  Many have no respect for bikes that preceded the current generations of bikes. It's as if they live in a bubble of ignorance.  My two cents on this whole thing is the saying their mama should have explained to them: " if you have nothing positive to say, say nothing at all" should be in full force.  For me , when folks throw the previous generations under the bus, I've lost respect in them as Indian Motorcycle Owners.  Right or Wrong, it's how I feel. Its brought out my dark side over the years. So, I tend to push my agenda when the opportunity arises; like .. right now.   So, welcome to the Spirit Lake generation!

Fourth Generation

2014 Chieftain

The latest and current generation of bikes.  In August 2013, if you were at Sturgis you were smiling.   The Vintage model bikes looked great.  The Classic models looked great.  And we now had a 'touring' bike  .. a hard bagger .... the Chieftain.  I've gotta' tell you, when the Chieftain first came out I wasn't a fan.  In fact, I cancelled my order for mine the second it hit the internet and I saw a pic.  I thought.. WTF?   Well, after seeing one in public ....in black, decked out with chrome....   after a few days looking at it over and over... I came around. Since then, I've become a die hard of the look of the bikes. In any case,  I had a vision of where to take mine... and right there while at Sturgis, 'Krome' was conceived.   But we 'larger' folks now had a problem.  Throwing a leg over one .. all three models ...  one quickly realized something had changed.  The previous two generations were roomy bikes.   I suddenly felt cramped.  My knees were too high.   I sat a notch too far forward.  Had I never owned a previous generation I'd probably have been oblivious to this but here I was trying to figure out how.. and why .. they F'd this up.   I mean the roominess is what brought me to Indian on day one as an owner in' 09. Had I sat on this that day, I'd probably gone a different direction .. might not own an Indian today, 8 years later.   But still....  the more I sat on it... the more .. I tried to overlook it.  Fast forward a year from that date and I had a Corbin seat on it that solved much of the problem.  Eventually, I'd change out the bars and boards and customize the fit perfect for me.  But that day; it was a leap of faith.   So it's '13 and the new Thunderstroke 111 bikes are headed our way. It'd be October before I finally got mine.  I made a critical error and had put my faith in a dealer up North when .... unknown to me, my region's best dealer is just 225 miles from me in Little Rock AR; Gregory Polaris.  I'm guessing I'd have had it a month sooner.. .. at least .. had I gone that direction. I'd have probably saved some money too since the dealer up north was bending folks over at List Cost and then I had shipping costs on top of that.  Lesson learned!   Soon, the 111s are delivering nationwide; the first 1901 were 'numbered' accordingly, a market ploy that got a few like myself to commit early, as well as getting a five year warranty to alleviate any concerns about a first year bike.  Here we are years later, and the TS111s have proven to be solid motors, as are the Chiefs and Chieftains ( and their model derivatives ).  They've introduced numerous models and color schemes after the initial 3x3 ( 3 models, 3 colors ) . Just one year after the Chiefs were introduced , a new liquid cooled 69 cubic inch Scout was introduced as a middleweight cruiser ( I'm personally not sure that's the right term).   The Scout itself currently has 3 different models.  And of course rumors are ablaze on whether Indian will release another model 'between' the Scout and Chief to fill out the offerings.  Or, if they'll release a 'scrambler' model, based off a 1200cc Scout custom that was recently built.  Or, will we see an Inline 4, a throwback to the '30s era that would separate it from it's competitors.  And what about the motor that was destined for the Victory lineup before they pulled the plug on the brand, earlier this year?  Will it show up 'looking like' and Indian motor?  It's rumored to be a beast size and power wise.   No matter how you look at it, this generation will be here for many years to come; hopefully my lifetime.   As an owner, I believe so. As an investor , I'm betting so!  



 

Spirit Lake generation of Indian Motorcycles